Wednesday, December 3, 2008

We were NEVER mnml, December 2008


In December 2007, I framed the year that had been as a ‘long glide into the deep’. 2008 felt like a year that developed and, at moments, perfected a lot of these ideas. But if 2007 was the ‘long glide into the deep’, then 2008 could be understood more as a ‘dark surge out of the dub’.

For the most compelling tracks in 2008, there was still the 2007 sense of space exploration, and a deepening through dubbing (with the powers of reverb and repetitions), but added to that was a strange, dark ecstasy. Three tracks that capture something of this for me are Portable’s ‘Release’, Shackleton’s remix of Ricardo Villalobos’ incredible ‘Minimoonstar’, and DJ Koze’s spine-tingling remix of Sascha Funke’s ‘Mango’. In each case, vocals (pitched and filtered) hosted monologues strongly evoking the disarray of the world, the need for healing and transformation, and the sense in which we are being blown backwards into the future, which is beginning to look uncannily like the void.

Meanwhile, vinyl is dying as a DJ format, physical distro is in disarray (Neuton and Kompakt are on the ropes if the rumours are to be believed), and almost nobody’s making a living wage from groove-based electronic music. Part of the story is that, in 2008, people are getting the overwhelming majority of their music digitally, and only a part of that delivery involves economic exchange. If private trackers like Oink (and its demise) were ’07, in ’08 it was all about google and rapidshare, the only two things anyone with access to broadband needed to ‘keep up’, a habit that might have cost an Australian vinyl user $3,000 or more per year, and a Beatport user perhaps a third of that.

I’ve heard all the excuses, and I’ve made a few of my own, but now I can’t help but think that the people rolling the anti-record company screed were also doing their little bit to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Much like the moments prior to the financial implosion, it seems, almost everyone has their snout in the trough, and most know what they’re doing is not only unsustainable but actively destructive – but they can’t stop downloading. Where does this lead? Ultimately to individual tactics to minimise personal cost and risk transfer that burden to the system, which creaks, shudders, then collapses.

But at the same time, this destructive digital technology is also incredibly productive and efficient: it’s lean, it’s light, it’s amazingly accessible (to those who can afford computers and have access to the internet). On a local note, Australians now have no excuse either to fail as internationally recognised producers or to be parochial about their own value as a scene, a sound and a voice. The field has never been more level, or more accessible. The opportunities are there: the rest is just mediocrity grumbling apologies for being so.

More than anything, the collapse (financial, economic, musico-industrial) is an opportunity to develop a new context for groove-based electronic music – and here comes the hard part. This is a creative opportunity that must be seized. What is to be invented is an extra-technological context for electronic music, one that is beyond the drug muppetry of corporate raving and amphetamine nightlife. But nobody wants to wake up. People just keep ripping, dropping, downloading and dancing around like it’s 1999. Meanwhile it’s 2008, and something’s on fire.

45 comments:

  1. I know this is just a blog and all, but the "We Were Never mnml" series usually gives me a bit more to chew on, but right now my sole immediate reaction is to ask, re: the closing thought, "like what, exactly?"

    I'm going to think it over a lot more over the month, I'm sure, but I figure this is a good opportunity to append any thoughts you might have in response to such a question, so... have at it, please ;)

    ReplyDelete
  2. Hi there,

    Where have you read that Kompakt Distor is going bust? Would be nice to read something more about that..

    ReplyDelete
  3. Found this sad reading really.

    Convenience seems to be winning out over quality everywhere you go.

    I don't know what you mean by vinyl being dead. I've heard some very fine sets played on record players this year. It doesn't feel dead.

    I does appear that a lot more people aren't buying it or playing it, but so what.

    ReplyDelete
  4. ^

    so distributions go bust, and then vinyl labels go bust

    ReplyDelete
  5. As the above poster mentioned regarding the closing thought, like what?.

    This blog makes for an interesting read but sometimes one wonders if the writer at times makes points that in theory sound interesting but yet he has given little thought to. Can you expand on that point or were you just trying to sound smart?.

    ReplyDelete
  6. I too am lamenting the (possible) demise of vinyl djing. The pure ease and accessability of digital downloads appeals to the newer generation of music listeners. Less credit card bills for international orders for Australian collectors too. Vinyl will never die though, collectors like the ownership, artist support and real life aesthetics involved with collecting records.

    I am not a dj but do occasionaly like to buy the odd record/s and mess around on the decks, but I travel very frequently and, consequently spend all my money doing that.

    I kind of agree on the over-intellectualising of music on this blog. I don't mean that in a bad way, it's what keeps me reading, oh and of course the great music shares.

    Shackleton's mix of Minimoonstar is easily my favourite track this year too. Keep up the good work guys!

    ReplyDelete
  7. Can't say this feels untrue. I'm far from all partied out myself, but even so many techno parties feel like many people are just going through the motions. Drugs, dancing, staying up late... aren't these things meant to put a smile on your face?

    The death of vinyl I regard as a slippery issue. Did anyone make that much money out of releasing underground records, as a matter of course, ten years ago? I thought records get released to cement reputations and justify DJs being paid the big bucks. There are still hefty fees out there for plenty of performers, right?

    The other side of the spread of technology is that it's far easier to be able to afford to make good dance tracks, right? A bit of software for your laptop is easy to pay for (relatively), and doesn't this help many talented producers get in the game? Seems like that's worth a few trade offs.

    Can't help but think that for all its trade-offs dance music feels a little staid now though. Perhaps this was what it was like in '99, before mnml came along to change the scene, invigorate a new generation, and update production techniques? (For all its faults, it did that, right?)

    It is a bit strange that despite the huge run of stunning releases across the spectrum, 2009 does indeed feel like a bit of a change or die year in the making. Right on, btw, in identifying dub as the sound of this past year. No question about that, and ts been a good thing for sure.

    ReplyDelete
  8. oops - "trade-offs" in the fourth P should read "charms".

    ReplyDelete
  9. just a quick comment/defence of the suggestion that the blog is 'over-intellectualising music'. all i'd say is that we are serious about our music and this is how we approach/engage with it. we try to keep a balance of heavy and light, but at the same stage, i certainly dont apologise for the way we write about and understand the music we care about. if you want to keep things nice and easy, go read the RA forums. that's not we are about. sometimes it is necessary to dig deeper. also, insofar as pete offers questions but no answers, another thing we try to do is open things up for debate rather than constantly defending very fixed, rigid worldviews. i think pete has already made a good start by expressing some very serious issues that are hard enough to fully identify, let alone deal with. i mean, i think there is a tendency to forget quite how limited and shape the whole scene is by structural forces, and most basically, economics.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Hi - Jon from Kompakt here. Got wind of this post and like to set the record straight we are alive and very well - no thanks for spreading false rumors...please share your source and get your facts right next time you decide to make harsh, unnecessary comments like that.

    BUT go out and buy a record why don't ya's!!!

    ReplyDelete
  11. The end of Pete's piece raises a deadly fucking serious issue here ... and he is most definitely opening the floor to debate.

    This situation won't be (can't be) resolved by trying to hang on to the old system ("hey, just buy more vinyl"). We need to hammer out a solution that doesn't try to ignore the new technologies, but somehow uses them in a way that is ethical and fair for all involved.

    Obviously, this is something I am grappling with myself ... I can't see an easy solution here. (Which, again, is why Pete is interested in opening the floor to debate.)

    ReplyDelete
  12. "Can't say this feels untrue. I'm far from all partied out myself, but even so many techno parties feel like many people are just going through the motions. Drugs, dancing, staying up late... aren't these things meant to put a smile on your face?"

    This is exactly what I'm feeling. For most parties, it doesn't even seem that people are listening to the music anymore. Is this because there's just so MUCH of it? Or because it all sounds the same?

    As an art student years ago, I heard a critic use the phrase "in a state of jazz" to describe the state of the modern art movement. It's going nowhere and going everywhere all at the same time. In my opinion, we probably won't see any huge changes to the scene anytime soon. In the end, it will remain important to those who care and become indifferent to those looking for the next great "genre".

    And the underground will always be forever.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Hi - Jon from Kompakt here. Got wind of this post and like to set the record straight we are alive and very well - no thanks for spreading false rumors...please share your source and get your facts right next time you decide to make harsh, unnecessary comments like that.

    BUT go out and buy a record why don't ya's!!!



    i guess that's the end of that argument, eh?

    then again, i'm still for a third party giving the proof, or at least someone ponying up with the source of the rumour.

    ReplyDelete
  14. "This situation won't be (can't be) resolved by trying to hang on to the old system ("hey, just buy more vinyl"). We need to hammer out a solution that doesn't try to ignore the new technologies, but somehow uses them in a way that is ethical and fair for all involved."

    I wish traditional vinyl buyers were less reluctant to buy digital in the case they don't buy the vinyl because it's too expensive. In most case, those people will just get the mp3 off soulseek or elsewhere, with the common belief that since there's no physical product, it's worth nothing.
    It makes me mad many music lovers think like that.

    ReplyDelete
  15. I would say that I wholeheartedly repudiate what the previous Anonymous said. If it's not on vinyl I don't buy it, period, and since I don't bring my laptop with me to DJ there's no real sense in having it. If I'm lucky, it turns up in a mix and I can get to hear it in "full," mostly in anticipation of seeing it on wax - imports tend to delay getting here to the US most of the time, anyway.

    To build on what Anonymous says, though, about people like me, and what I hope to do... is this. We vinyl "purists" need to put our money where our mouth is and keep vinyl "alive" in a very direct way. The bigger distros may be crumbling, but there's nothing stopping us from taking some of the money we're making from work or whatever else to fucking RELEASE VINYL. Vinyl heads love limited runs, regional / private presses, so fucking let's do it.

    My money-draining idea, personally, is to start getting some acetates cut of my own tracks so I can play them out. Thumbing a nose at the laptop artists who make that argument while also giving me a tactile/tangible piece of sonic love to share with whomever, whenever.

    If there's one thing I kinda do agree with in the original post it's that music isn't a business any longer. I don't mind losing money on what I love, and I love music.

    ReplyDelete
  16. I liked the read. However, spreading any vague rumor about a key distributor being in trouble is inconsistent with you caring about the economic side of the industry. Some blogs ie on RA can be compared to a top DJ liking or disliking a release. I agree with Jon, although I found his response a bit over the top, it's communication with a significant reach that comes with some responsibility attached.


    Regarding DJs in 2008 playing out with mp3 burnt onto CDR, the sound quality often is just a disgrace. People don't realize that a compressed file burnt as full audio file which then gets pitched (!) really is not a good idea - sonically.


    Maybe such ignorance of (physical) laws is what makes the scene tick in a metaphysical sense since day one. Ignore the rules that limit your own body, mind and environment. I am a dj, and almost every time I take over all meters on the mixer peak in the dark red, often not just the master output. I pull things down, because it is no rocket science, two channels nearly clipping individually can only lead to distortion during the cross mix. I'm afraid it is not easy, and I always questions myself. But it usually takes only a short time and few great tracks for people to get used to the (better) sound quality at a lower volume.

    ReplyDelete
  17. hello all,

    first, i´d like to thank the author for this article - i have read many on this topic, but none had been so exact, although at the same time abstract - i guess we all have to extract our point out of it...and mine is - (apart from tractactact)

    it is time for a change.

    a few years ago we were happy with the rise of quality, innovative, grooving and moving dance music, as well as with the fact that more and more people started liking it.
    but
    all that gets popular
    gets commercial
    and sooner or later
    the levels of creativity go down
    for many reasons
    unfortunately.

    so here we are, getting quite bored with the same sound, the same format of ´fun´ and some of us look around and see that the crowd on the whole seems more into whatever, but not the core of it all.

    music

    dancing

    listening

    feeling

    admiring

    getting inspired

    and...

    in my personal case... going home with a smile and excitement button still on.
    then waking up the next day and rewinding all the experience so it lasts a lil bit longer.
    did i mention ´feeling great, cuz i didn´t get off my face, cuz i don´t get off my face just to get off my face´?..
    shit, i´m talking about a good party with good music and less destruction. destruction, which became a lifestyle for some kids, like a fashion, a way of feeling part of something...

    sure, we can talk about vinyl vs digital, deep vs shallow, tekno vs dub etc. etc. etc. but it all lands in the same place - quality vs quantity.

    perhaps we are going back to the time when talent needed a support from the powerful..? if not in money, then in passion to make interesting, different, new things happen.
    perhaps we will soon witness a revolution in our economic system and guys who are out there playing or making ´music´ for the profit (either economic or ´social´) will be forced to forget this officially cool profession or hobby and...
    and
    will be pushed to look into c r e a t i n g.
    not copy-pasting.
    and ´releasing´ the pasted copy with a click of a damn button...

    ...
    ...
    ...

    one way or another, its pretty peculiar period of time we are living...let´s see what happens.

    or what we can make happen.

    2009 - ´what[´s gonna] happen[ed]?´

    ReplyDelete
  18. "I would say that I wholeheartedly repudiate what the previous Anonymous said. If it's not on vinyl I don't buy it, period, and since I don't bring my laptop with me to DJ there's no real sense in having it."

    i don't even have a laptop. aside from that, patience is a virtue. things don't seem to be nearly as delayed in arriving in the US anymore, but most of the records i buy are domestics anyway so that doesnt matter much to me either.

    "To build on what Anonymous says, though, about people like me, and what I hope to do... is this. We vinyl "purists" need to put our money where our mouth is and keep vinyl "alive" in a very direct way. The bigger distros may be crumbling, but there's nothing stopping us from taking some of the money we're making from work or whatever else to fucking RELEASE VINYL. Vinyl heads love limited runs, regional / private presses, so fucking let's do it."

    exactly. people like Omar-S are selling directly off their own sites at deeply discounted prices. there are a million ways to do this. does anyone try selling records to their local spots anymore? try networking with shop owners and selling small amounts cheaply or even use consignment.

    "My money-draining idea, personally, is to start getting some acetates cut of my own tracks so I can play them out. Thumbing a nose at the laptop artists who make that argument while also giving me a tactile/tangible piece of sonic love to share with whomever, whenever."

    this is how it was done "back in the day" before CDJs and Serrato. personally, i'd rather see people start labels with that money and get the music out there that way. dubplates only last a small number of plays and are very fragile.

    "If there's one thing I kinda do agree with in the original post it's that music isn't a business any longer. I don't mind losing money on what I love, and I love music."

    amen. it music was about getting paid, dance music would owe be big time already.

    ReplyDelete
  19. also, i have to say that i never got into dance music for the convenience or use of cutting edge technologies. this shit was always about using old crap that nobody cared about anymore to create a wild situation out of nothing. none of that has changed for me. the music i listen to still excites me, i still have great nights out listening to great deejays (usually on vinyl, not surprisingly). there may be some changes in the economics of record sales, but there is no greater crisis outside of terrible music continuing to be way more popular than it deserves to be. good shit is creeping up though! i know of at least 3 or 4 labels that will be launching in 2009 that will put out killer vinyl only releases.

    ReplyDelete
  20. I very much agree with Pipecock and James K.

    Maybe instead of looking at the closure of these distribution companies being directly related to the death of vinyl. It might be worth noting that it could become the birth of a D.I.Y. niche market for the direct sales by labels straight to the customers.

    The internet allows for fast and easy communication and transactions between businesses and consumers. I for one would way rather buy my records direct from the label rather then an online shop. Eliminate the middle man, increase the profit and create a one to one relationship with customers.

    Just a thought!

    ReplyDelete
  21. I'm so sick of all this apocalyptic nonsense. Just because house and techno are relatively new genres doesn't mean they'll disappear as quickly as they originated.

    New formats, the death of vinyl, Ableton, more accessibility for 'producers' with no talent, Soulseek, torrents, the fucking credit crunch?? Am I supposed to believe that people who put their heart and soul into this music are just gonna bend over, give up and do something else? I don't believe it for a second.

    And let's not start talking about economics, because DJs make much more from playing in clubs week in, week out than they do from their vinyl/mp3 releases, and as far as I can tell, clubs are as busy as they've ever been. As long as people like the music there will never be a problem within the scene. I realize that labels have been supplying the music and organizing most of the nights for years now, but much like the rest of the music industry (perhaps even more so), they need to start looking at new ways of generating profits, because I think we can all agree that, as much as I hate to admit it, vinyl will no longer be a profit generating product in a few years.

    Also, if we're going to talk about sound and production quality, before every club had Funktion 1 sound, could you really hear the difference when the music was played in its natural setting, the club? The speakers were awful in most clubs and we should consider ourselves lucky to have such good sound these days. 95% of the people listening to this music don't spend time reading techno blogs and can't even tell the difference between analogue and digital sound. Although I don't feel we should be setting the standard according to those people, I still think that we're going a bit overboard with this whole issue.

    All I ever read on here is that techno is supposed to futuristic and forward-thinking (which I think it is), yet it seems like you're all shit scared that it's just gonna dissipate in front of your eyes. I say, have some faith in the music.

    I play both vinyl and MP3s, and as much as I prefer vinyl, I like the fact that I've been able to expand my music collection significantly. I'm a big supporter of vinyl but I can now play tunes I would never have been able to get on vinyl, and if 95% of the people won't be able to tell the difference, I'll take that chance. Let's not forget that 5,000 years ago people were beating drums in the African plains, and the experience was just as good, if not better.

    If techno is as futuristic as we all believe it to be, then why not get with the times? I think we all know that by the time Ricardo, Sven, Richie and even Marcel Detmann, Ben Klock and co. hang up their hats, we'll still be in this, vinyl or not, and if this blog will still be around we'll be laughing at the fact we used to have these conversations.

    ReplyDelete
  22. couldn't agree more with that last post.

    ReplyDelete
  23. @ Kompakt: Jon, this is just an unsubstantiated rumour that I've heard. A typical 'internet rumour' – with no more veracity than that. And let's be specific, it was a rumour about Kompakt mp3.

    Anecdotally, it also might be why formerly reclusive W. Voigt is now doing gas shows everywhere and reissuing his back catalogue, although I don't dispute that the main (and very worthy) motivation is to introduce a new generation to his amazing work.

    But/and it does also chime in with what M. Mayer told me last time I interviewed him earlier this year (in March), when he said, and I quote:

    "Kompakt was stable for a while, even after digital became popular. Then we did notice a decline of vinyl sales. And now they’re down 30% in the past year – and not just Kompakt, but all the labels we distribute. And the sad thing is that this isn’t being made up for in digital sales. People are sharing music, music for free – and it’s totally sanctioned by the music press in Germany. Nobody wants to be the bad guy in this, and you don’t want to lose the support of the bloggers. It’s really complex and frustrating, but I really fear that the music scene as we know it, which is a result of structures and associations built in the 90s, with its huge diversity – we’re going to lose it. It’s just not going to survive, ‘cos it’s not economically viable. And no-one’s safe, no-one knows what’s going to happen."

    Secondly, @ James and others, this is intended as an op ed piece, with questions and ideas to ponder. I want to ask, not because I know, but because I wonder.

    Finally, on 'the death of vinyl', well, really it's the death of vinyl as a DJ format. Five years ago, most of the best tracks were ONLY available on vinyl. If you wanted to be up to date, you had to participate in that economy. Now, dedicated vinyl users like myself are having to mail order records (because there are no specialist record stores in Melbourne where I can go and enjoy digging) at prices that are increasing (because of the financial crisis).

    Vinyl will doubtless continue, but as a fetish/collectors market. To that extent, it won't 'die' the death of maligned formats like cassette. It will die a partial but decisive death that is intimately tied to the notion of what DJing is. DJing in five years (and perhaps even now) won't be about 'spinning'. This is a good and bad thing.

    There are so many new, interesting possibilities – why can't we focus on them, rather than defending what we already know we know we think are we do, blah blah.....?

    ReplyDelete
  24. 1. I believe that vinyl pressing factories are actually in rude health as there has been an increase in re-issues of non-dance records by collectors.
    2. MP3 DJing usually sounds awful. The compression on the majority of tracks makes it sound like you are amplifying your ipod over a loudspeaker. It is always strikingly noticeable when you change from vinyl to MP3 during a party as people will start shuffling about and then go for a drink.
    I grew up during an age of audio purists who would obsess over the quality of speakers and amps. If you are listening to something on headphones on the bus then OK have an MP3. If you are in a club or rave with some beatport guff then you are taking the piss.

    ReplyDelete
  25. A quick fold in for the latecomers:

    http://www.residentadvisor.net/news.aspx?id=9972

    (Neuton down)

    NB: this is NOT a format war post. We have had this discussion. Many times. And you don't get very far. Because people have already made up their mind.

    I am well aware, for example, that people who are committed to vinyl like vinyl and/because they're committed to it.

    You rarely get a disinterested party spruiking for any given format.

    In future, could all people who want to express an opinion about the sacrality of a given format please declare their habit beforehand?

    This is an invitation to think beyond the traditional contexts and strictures. Of course, a post cannot 'invent a context', but if a conversation cannot talk beyond itself, then it becomes insular, then boring, then irrelevant.

    It really pisses me off (and is telling) that not a single person refuted me on the rapidshare point. If I sense some animus, is this because there is some complicity?

    I liked Koze's quote (from the RA thing today):

    "I think it is fairly easy to rock the house, but so hard to look out of the window."

    ReplyDelete
  26. "What is to be invented is an extra-technological context for electronic music, one that is beyond the drug muppetry of corporate raving and amphetamine nightlife."

    A context for dance music beyond raves? Why do you think this is needed? Surely this is still the context in which it works best?

    I'm sick of these miserable op-ed pieces about a perceived 'slump' in dance music, everyone I know seems to have had a lot of great experiences with going out and listening to dance music at home this year. Yr post reads more like one more person whingeing than anything constructive.

    As for illegal downloading, I can't speak for anyone else, but I've bought more music this year than I have in a long time (and very little of that was on vinyl fwiw) and have all but given up on slsk etc...

    ReplyDelete
  27. "this is NOT a format war post."

    the thing is, it's not about format. it's about culture. dance culture and vinyl culture are inseparably linked at this point. trying to change that is not going to happen. there will be new avenues and opportunities for people who maintain that tradition. i believe we are just a few years away from a popular swing back towards vinyl as a reaction to displeasure with digital styles. i know in the mostly hiphop related record shop i work in i have seen a pretty significant number of people coming in recently specifically to buy vinyl because theyre starting to deejay and they dont want to use computers or CDs.

    i think that the formats will split just like subgenres of house and techno have split off. the thing i think people will find frustrating is that the is no end to digital file manipulation. with records, there is an end to work towards because the tools dont change. digital "deejaying" is not like that and it will end up not unlike the genres of music that base themselves around sounding "new": theyll burn people out.

    ReplyDelete
  28. the distro thing sucks. especially being in the US and my local record stores are a bit behind the times. order on line right? well that's one way to make an already expensive hobby/passion more expensive. is the answer digital? no. it's an avenue. vinyl as a format has outlasted everything else. the a-track, the tape, the cd. if it's dead than it's been dying a slow death for decades. for now i'm content playing vinyl exclusively and i don't expect that will change for a while. this is a culture and some of "us" are raping it only to see the things we love come crashing down in bankruptcy. can i afford to support it? yes. can you?

    ReplyDelete
  29. oh and least we not forget about reel to reel, mini disk, DAT and probably a few others. not that i ever owned one or have seen anyone use these as viable formats for DJing. vinyl lives!
    ...
    for now.

    ReplyDelete
  30. "the thing is, it's not about format. it's about culture. dance culture and vinyl culture are inseparably linked at this point"

    It should be all about the music, not about a piece of fucking plastic! All I see here is a bunch of old whiners attached to a dying format that does not make sense in current times. Ok I believe the above statement is not going to be very popular here.

    ReplyDelete
  31. Asking someone to not over intellectualise an observation is akin to asking someone to not think deeply and totally about a contemporary urban art which in most cases is spawned from a passion for music.

    I totally agree with the analytical approach that music is serious business. If one is comfortable absorbing urban art or non-commercial art uncritically and without deep thought processes then I guess that’s what psy-trance is for.

    Being from Melbourne I have to admit that a lot of the times my choice of format is dictated to me by the shipping costs, the virtually worthless Australian currency and the waiting period, I could easily blame late capitalism for making me impulsive ad impatient though that would be only semi-accurate, its more a case of really not wanting to sound one step behind most other DJ’s.

    Having said that, I think it’s a premature call to signal the death of vinyls, really what we have is a very noticeable birth of the digital format which doesn’t mean that they are mutually exclusive and one will have to give way to the other. It can mean that we now use both, digital in WAV and vinyls together when spinning. And plus im realising some dope tracks just don’t get released in digital formats.

    Babicz and Luciano baby!

    ReplyDelete
  32. "A context for dance music beyond raves? Why do you think this is needed? Surely this is still the context in which it works best?"

    Who said anything about 'dance music'?

    And in what sense does it work best? Does it work best for electronica? For ambient? For drone?

    "I'm sick of these miserable op-ed pieces about a perceived 'slump' in dance music, everyone I know seems to have had a lot of great experiences with going out and listening to dance music at home this year. Yr post reads more like one more person whingeing than anything constructive."

    I'm sick of anonymous posters engaging in unconstructive whingeing about op-ed pieces like this that are trying to shut down a piece intended to generate discussion and thought.

    The little that was constructive about your comment seems to say, 'well me and my friends had a great time out raving, so what could possibly be the matter' – look outside your context. Try to see the bigger picture.

    What's so bad and threatening about thinking and questioning?

    As for pipecock: you work in a record store. It's not surprising you've sold a few records this year.

    As for the culture thing: electronic music is inextricably tied to vinyl for YOU, because you are already committed to vinyl. You are simply defending the consumer choice you've made. If you didn't fetishise it, it wouldn't matter to you, as it doesn't to increasing numbers of people who don't care one way or the other.

    ReplyDelete
  33. ^
    Nicely put, a strong and informative op-ed piece should incite further discussion from a myriad of different perspectives and contexts and not just present conclusions(research papers). So for the posts with "like what?" as a response are in effect asking the author to think for them!

    I adore vinyls though to over-romanticise the quality of vinyls is to veer into a sort of self-defeating mythology about the "power of vinyls" and to uncritically defend at the end a
    consumer choice.

    And culture should be present before the cash register, not after, am I more cultured becuase i just purchased vinyls?

    ReplyDelete
  34. i dont understand how its not obvious that vinyl is crucial to our culture.

    this is not due to the format itself and which is better to dj with (though vinyl is superior) but has to do with the act of getting the vinyl. when i go to a record store i see records picked by the staff there, i talk to the staff, and we spend some time discussing the music. not the latest dj gear or whats big in the clubs, but the music itself.

    what do i get when i log on to beatport? a thing telling me that deadmau5 has a new track out?

    there is no way to deny how influential record stores themselves are to djs and producers, and how that link provides an open forum for discussion about the music. or, for that matter, how stores like hardwax are influential to the entire scene.

    i'm not one to say that techno is done, because i think there are always fantastic innovations and if i push aside the bullshit i can always find new records that i love. but, as PC said, its getting less and less about the music, which is why we all should be here in the first place. this isnt just mindless music to dance to while off your head on pills; if it were, blogs like this one wouldnt exist.

    beatport is a good tool, but it makes it all almost strictly about whats going into your ableton session, not about whats going onto your turntable for you to sit there and listen to.

    ReplyDelete
  35. "Who said anything about 'dance music'?And in what sense does it work best? Does it work best for electronica? For ambient? For drone?"

    The majority of the "groove-based electronic music" covered on this blog is clearly made for clubs, and to suggest that it "needs" another context in order to survive begs the obvious question "why"? Which you haven't addressed.

    I'm not trying to "shut down discussion and thought" but to engage with your vague and doom-laden post. Saying "this isn't working and we need to find another way" begs several obvious questions which you don't address, making your words seem empty and pompous. I'm not even sure what kind of debate you were *hoping* to generate here.

    As for looking at the bigger picture, why don't you try it yourself? Yes a few labels are shutting down at the moment, but beyond a few famous success stories, has underground electronic music ever been a reliable source of income?

    From where I'm standing there are loads of signs of thriving creativity in electronic music. And yet you have this handful of bloggers making out like it's all over, and all it seems so destructive, because if you're going to critique a whole scene, why not at least be clear about how you'd like to see it change?

    ReplyDelete
  36. didn't read all the comments, but had a few comments....

    i guess that's the end of that argument, eh?

    then again, i'm still for a third party giving the proof, or at least someone ponying up with the source of the rumour.


    I am certainly not speaking about Kompakt in particular, but I and many of my peers have had shady experiences with distros and their dealings with our labels. as is common knowledge, many have closed over the past few years, and some had even ordered more records to sell off just days before announcing the closing of the operations to their labels. this is shady as fuck business practice imo, so I would never trust any sort of "statement" from a distro directly.

    Again, not geared at Kompakt, just a general observation from my own experiences which admittedly are probably biased. and with that said, I certainly hope they are still alive and well as they are one of the bests!

    Second point is kudos to the authors of this blog from not backing down either and providing empirical evidence based on other interviews to support their claim of what which is essentially, as they claimed, an op ed piece. sound journalism at work :)

    ReplyDelete
  37. @ last anonymous:

    Groove is good for dancing, and much groove-based electronic music is intended as functionalist music for dancing, true enough.

    But I don't think electronic music is about dancing, and I wonder/think:

    1) shouldn't music have some kind of value autonomous to its 'function'? Recall the 303 was a creative appropriation: far be it from us to insist on what 'proper use' is.

    2) I mostly listen to house/techno outside the clubbing context, and I actually often find this more enjoyable and less problematic. Nor do I feel I'm 'missing out'. I see no lack there.

    Here's an exerpt from a column I wrote three years ago on this tip:

    "I love my Sennheisers, because I can control and isolate-out all the elements of 20th century style clubbing that are giving me, in my emerging middle-aged sag-titted curmudgeonry, the howling fantods. I exclude all the shits that clubbing give me, and maybe that’s you too, if you’re the prick who spilled their Agwa on my jeans, the cloakroom biyatch that sneered at my smile, or the King Cnut who just wouldn’t let me in, because my snoobs aren’t big enough, and the nipples don’t produce milk (at least not for you). At a Senny’s gig, you choose peaktime, chilltime and hometime, and there are no taxis, turnoffs, comedowns or brownouts. Life and wife-swapping, pill-popping, club-hopping and even be-bopping – you can keep it. Senny’s mobile discotheque is so exclusive, they only let me in. This week, I’m giving cans for Christmas, and so should you. Mine are to the Salvos (hey, they ‘do do’ good, fundamentalism aside), but yours, if you really care about clubbing – sound quality, vibe, location location location – should be to your self. It’s a gift that keeps on giving. No guest lists, no exceptions."

    2) neither clubs nor dancing nor ecstasy nor hedonism exhaust the 'proper contexts' for electronic music, groove-based or otherwise. Electronic music is a mixed tradition (in many senses of the word) and has links with and roots to many kinds of exploratory and experimental music AND social relations.

    I think we forget how much the 90s networks that emerged were built out of social scenes that were as much about repossessing derelict spaces and posing the possibility of new kinds of socialities as they were about getting wasted.... not that getting wasted is necessarily a waste. It too can be productive and has been expansive and helpful for a lot of people, myself included.

    But I think there has been an almost total repossession of the rave and experimental contexts by clubbing –though this is always in ebb and flow. But consider the number of illegal, nonlegal, ad-hoc spaces that were made back in the day. What happened? Or, to ask the question differently, what happened to chill out rooms? And most clubs, even the famous ones (read Teleost's posts on the hell that is Fabric on a Saturday night) can really try your patience.

    How nice would it be to get up in the morning, fresh as a daisy, and go somewhere outdoors in a park and listen to a morning set, given for free, through a sparkling sound system. You could even take your kids.

    Or imagine, on Sunday morning, going to a church where the only dogma was 4/4?

    Or imagine going to a gig on a Wednesday evening that started promptly at nine and only ran for three hours (like going to the cinema)?

    Or imagine private dancing booths, like karaoke booths, where you could go with your friends and records?

    More than anything, it has to be remembered that clubs are NOT music venues: they are mostly about hedonism, enjoyment, sex, drugs. The music, for most people, is secondary, or even tertiary. How much of Berghain, to take one example, exists by dint of the anonymous desire of people for each other's bodies?

    You can contrast this with the pure/unified function of a movie theatre: you go there for the performance, it is for the performance, and it is a pretty close fit. With clubbing it is much more ambiguous and ambivalent.

    The miracle of groove-based electronic music is that it has managed to be so creative and inventive while nesting in a context which is, at best, only partially there 'for the music'.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Techno church, 100% performance, and music theatre all sound incredibly lame, tame, and boring to me, and I am someone who has many of the same reservations about clubbing that you do, PC. Parties in residences and non profit spaces here in Chicago have proven time and again to be the best experiences for me both as an attendee and as a dj. This despite the "focus on music" quotient remaining just about the same as in a club, if only a few tics higher. It sounds like the commercialization of the context bothers you the most, and while that definitely sucks, it's also a bit of an easy target and can be avoided.

    From what I can tell, the situation in America is similar to that in Australia. The majority of club music (played at the biggest clubs with the highest focus on commercialization over music) is modern rap and/or top40; next on the tier is electro/progressive/"fidget" house; way down there at the bottom rung is techno played by the likes of Dan Bell or Jeff Mills.

    (And let's not even mention the "dance parties" thrown by indie rockers.)

    Anyway, that bottom rung in America/Chicago means that someone with a head/heart for techno can't even be assured that there will be a legitimate techno night at a club on any given week, even a smaller club. To plan on attending a techno party (i.e. non-commercial, outside of a club setting) on a given week is even more difficult.

    I don't really know how to tie this up nicely but I think your problem with commercialization is understandable but - if I may be so bold - a bit trite for the following reasons:

    - if techno were as saturated in our corners of the world as the other club musics, i.e. rap, electro, and given the way they are presented (without what i understand to be a certain sophistication and modesty found in berlin, for example), we'd all be looking for something else to do.
    - dirty capitalism can be found in just about every facet of life, and it can be almost just as easily avoided.

    I fully understand that 1. I may be completely missing your point and 2. I may be coming off like a bit of a dick, so my apologies in advance if either of those things are true.

    ReplyDelete
  39. @ James K:

    No, you don't come off as a dick at all.

    My concern is with the necessary and necessarily-positive equation and placement of:

    (groove-based electronic music, here as 'house/techno')

    house/techno = dance music

    and

    nightclubs = proper and legitimate place in which house/techno should occur

    I take issue with this because, well, I don't think that nightclubs are either the best or only place for house/techno

    and

    I don't even think that house/techno are necessarily (or even optimally) dance music.

    I'm aware that mine is a minor position that a lot of people might think weird, but I don't think it's illegitimate, and I don't think I'm Robinson Crusoe.

    (NB you're right about the relative popularity of various kinds of dance music, and, to be honest, I think this is actually a reflection of what most people think is fun to dance to.)

    As for the lame/tame/boring thang, well... why?

    ReplyDelete
  40. Your last question is the one that I've been asking myself a lot ever since I thought to write that. Funny that Raster Noton is your newest feature, because I guess I feel like there's a functional divide between Alva Noto and, for argument's sake, Marcel Dettman. To my ears, both AN and MD do many of the same things with texture + space in their music, but I would classify the latter as something distinct (i.e. functional) from the latter, which isn't to take anything away from either artists' work.

    (And might the above have something to do with the overall, “Platonic” aesthetic of the tools – mind, heart, and machinery – involved in their processes?)

    All of this is to say that for as lame, tame, and boring as hearing MD in a monastic, quasi-religious setting would be, to me, hearing AN in the same setting sounds like a great idea. For me it’s just a separation of function from form. MD’s music (and here is where I realize I could just as easily substitute UR or even RV for MD) falls under the nebulous umbrella term “techno” that is, as they say, jacking, functional. There’s nothing inherently wrong with that – the 4/4, and permutations thereof, has been making humans want to move their bodies for as long as the 4/4 has been around. Where we differ on this point is that I do believe in the value of the equation Techno = Dance, even if that’s not how we necessarily spend our time listening to the music.

    I agree that nightclubs may not be the ideal place for techno and house music, but again, that has more to do with the peripherals than with the music itself. Techno = Dance, and therefore the ideal setting should be a place of physical communion of some sort, but ideally I think we’d all like that setting to be stripped of some of the sweaty, leering expectations thrust onto it by the peripheral need for revenue.

    ReplyDelete
  41. @ James: I think you're right – for most people, house/techno = dance music.

    As for the lame/tame thing: it doesn't have to be a religious/monastic/ascetic setting, but it could be really different. I think it's hard for us to see the extent to which 'things could be otherwise', and most of what we accept as normal is just habit, tradition, repeat repeat.

    There was an interview with RV a while back, on XLR8R

    http://www.xlr8r.com/features/2007/10/ricardo-villalobos-sacred-art

    This is the bit:

    As we talked about all of this I remember seeing in your bio that you wrote about the club of the future and a lot of what we talked about tied into that, so I guess what I find interesting is the club of the future has a lot to do with the past. With stripping away things almost that we have been talking about have become a problem, internet, digital compression, and what not.

    Well, yes, exactly.

    Tell me a little bit more about where you would like the future to go.

    First of all, we are dealing since the acts the American government was doing five, um, six years ago. This is coming like a wave to Europe also. You know how like that smoking campaign is coming to Europe also, it happens to be in everywhere. It will come to Germany also, and it will come to Berlin. And all these restrictions will one day come to Berlin also. That means that the clubs cannot be open forever. That there are restrictions, police control everywhere. That the police is coming because of only a repetitive beat, whatever. And these are all like European rules, and I think we have to defend ourselves, not in an offensive way of trying to do crazy parties in hidden places. I think the more intelligent way is to find a club, which is open Tuesday afternoon from 3 to 7, for example. And also on Wednesday, and also on Thursday. And in this club, there is the best sounding music, under 100 decibels, so no policeman can say something. So no neighbor can say something. There is no drug policy because it is during the day. Perhaps someone’s smoking in the corner. But outside, it’s an open place with a lot of air. And it’s a bright place, and the sound is absolutely incredible and kicking. And the definition at the end, the definition of what we are doing all the time is because of the music. It is because of the sound. So to do things like this is a form of doing a future club in an intelligent way. You know, to create different times of partying to find the gaps where the police and the politicians cannot really restrict us in a way. I think this is what we have to do, and we need to create places where the sound is incredible. And where it is not necessary to put it very loud. Where the sound is so good it is not necessary to put it loud. You know this is a very big difference.

    So that is always a goal of yours, that you want your sounds to be so they sound great on large systems, but you want them to be so impeccable and in extreme detail that as long as the sound is good it does not need extreme volume.

    Exactly. And there is a French friend of mine who is working for the American brand, Meyer Sound in South America, and he is working on developing a ring where it is a dancing ring. It is a ring–big or small–of speakers and you can be inside the ring. And inside the ring there is sound. And then outside the ring there is no sound because the little speakers in the back, which are deleting with the opposite phase, the sound coming out of the ring. So this is the club of the future. To really to get the best technology, the best lawyers, the best writers, the best DJs, the best sound people together and to go on making parties. And go on celebrating the little therapies we need on the weekend. But not just on the weekend. You know, whenever! Whenever going into a club anymore, you go in and have a drink and it’s not loud anymore, and you go home after three to four hours again.

    So to a lot of people describe clubs and studios almost like caves, but you look at it more of like a cocoon or a sort.

    No, like an open place. More like an open place.

    I guess I say cocoon in a sense that it is nurturing, as opposed to an isolated solitary experience.

    Yes, exactly. More like a cocoon, perhaps.

    ReplyDelete
  42. "
    How nice would it be to get up in the morning, fresh as a daisy, and go somewhere outdoors in a park and listen to a morning set, given for free, through a sparkling sound system. You could even take your kids.

    Or imagine, on Sunday morning, going to a church where the only dogma was 4/4?

    Or imagine going to a gig on a Wednesday evening that started promptly at nine and only ran for three hours (like going to the cinema)?"

    these kinds of things all exist in NYC based around the deep house/disco scene. this is nothing new, but it is from a culture that is wildly different from the "rave" culture that house and techno get associated with most of the time. i feel i must point out that it's also a vinyl culture ;)

    ReplyDelete
  43. the problem is not who's mixing what, which format he'll use.The problem is simply the extinction of the vinyl and vinyl has no serious rivals outthere.Serious djs who prefer using traktor for example must buy the vinyl first and then digitalize it.I have no respect for these djs who buy their stuff from beatport.I' m a bedromm dj, I am poor but I buy 9 to 10 EPS per month.it costs me a lot of money but it's my pleasure.
    We arrive at a time where buying vinyl is an act of resistance.

    Fuck beatport if you 're a music lover, buy vinyl.

    About Rapidshare, I use it a lot but I allways buy the stuff I like in vinyl and erase the rest of it.Rapidshare is a great tool for selecting what you 're gonna buy .It's a shame people can't moderate themselves with excessive downloading.

    Digital formats have no soul, no smell, no depth.Shame to djs who buy their tracks on beatport.

    ReplyDelete

Say something constructive, bitte. Or if you're gonna take a swipe, at least sharpen your nails.

Note: Only a member of this blog may post a comment.