Hello SSG fanciers,I've written a review of the new 'Watergate' mix by Onur Özer here
...when people talk about 'the dreaded minimal', or in Matias Aguayo's case, sing about it, maybe this is what they're talking about. What say you?
Hello SSG fanciers,
Sorry but this is a very bad and bitter review!
ReplyDeletewe here wonder why you guys are so bitter towards succesful and talented artists a (eg:the Dinky thread and now this stupid review)
it looks like artists who have a bigger name here are doubted just for the fact they are bigger.
how lame.
Onur is an extremely talented guy and musician , it takes nothing to realize you have a jealousy problem with him (just reading your first sentence )and where the hell did u get the VST plug in nonsense information?from another reviewer right? we know that as well...
how creative!
the guy uses complicated FM synthesis and high end hardware in his music..
he is a complete geek when it comes to studio, very clever person.
.Onur is an excelent modern composer.
If you find him "Amusical" you better check your harmony levels your self before saying something so serious about him.
Erik Satie , Bian Eno , Villaobos Bach ect ...all have used atonality in their music and this didnt stop them from being now considered geniuses!..
atonality or how you call it "amusicality is a form of expression in music and not necesarily means being "deaftone" or "amusical!
He is not using software synths as u describe in your review.he loves analogy and he explores deep into production not like you are saying.
and lastly the Mix CD is outstanding but is just a mix Cd and should be taking like that.
Onur is the new hero here in Europe we all love him just for what he is.
He uses his turkish roots in his music and has created a special fusion with electronic and arabesque and that is only ONE of the reasons he became so special for the whole techno community here , he is special and he has his own sound and his own roots are showcased in his music and Dj sets..
He will go very far ,remember this..
take a plane to europe and smell the expresso kids or your blog will be going down sooner than later.
you really make yourself look like complete idiots lately.
where are the great australian Djs-producers by the way?
no wonder ...
a no brainer!
Greg and Tina
Yeah i agree with Greg and Tina &
ReplyDeletedamn man you dislike Onur for some reason!
To say "Özer certainly is no musical talent" is very bitter indeed.
Not a good review for first time readers who might be thinking of buying the album.
Maybe i might be blowing my own trumpet here but so be it.
http://www.randomcircuits.com/joe/onur-ozer-watergate-01
so by your account, just because he's talented, creative or accomplished we should give him a free pass when he puts out a ho-hum, perpetually boring, and horribly programmed mix cd for the world to hear?
ReplyDeletei call bullshit on that.
the cd was pretty bad. i had a hard time getting through the entire thing. the first five tracks seem like "oh, my buddy gave me their new cut and i need to put it out first," and were devoid of any or all programming or thought process, and the rest of it is so slapdash and rushed it kind of left me pissed off. i know onur ozer is far better than that, so to shit out a hack mix was a serious cop out on his part.
furthermore, this isn't to say the guy hasn't done good things, or is entirely shitty. i know he's a quality guy. hell, his remix of audion's "fred's bells" that's coming out soon is pretty fucking bad ass, and he's an insanely good dj most of the time.
ReplyDeleteHe's in a league of his own and has been for some time. You just need to listen to Kasmir for proof of this.
ReplyDeleteI dont think it matters if the mix was programmed or not. I would expect it to be, its tight and intricate and very good.Certainly not boring, different but not boring. The fact it is differnt makes it all that better. There's only Özer & Tolga Fidan who are getting this sound right and its like a breath of fresh air when delivered right as Onur does in his mix.
"so by your account, just because he's talented, creative or accomplished we should give him a free pass when he puts out a ho-hum, perpetually boring, and horribly programmed mix cd for the world to hear?"
ReplyDeletechil out Eric:
read my post first and read the review again.
The mix is a matter of taste fine if u hate it..
but what is not a matter of taste is the nonsense of calling him "not talented ", "deaf toned" and that is records are made of "vst plug ins and ping pong delays"
those are some serious accousations and cant be taken for granted. sorry.
That just plain ignorant ,bitter and nonsense..
G an T
Sorry, just really need to step in here. This review really bugs me, as it seems to me, if anything, the music on this CD, or Onur Ozer's musical aptitude (or lack thereof -- he's one of my fav. producers of the last few years, by the way) isn't anything more than an empty shell to rally against this grand notion of ‘minimal’. It’s a clear case of what I find to be the most annoying trend in techno writing today (and unfortunately find on this blog more often than I'd like): this vehement reactionism against minimal, which might be more offensive than 'minimal' ever was. While it becomes more and more evident to me that the music referred to has been, to an extent, quite consistently similar, and that in reality it's just been understood as 'minimal' and subsequently anti-'minimal'. Each term being nothing more than an empty-signifier to provide structure, so when one is exhausted, another one that means even less is again haphazardly applied to whatever music is out there. This minimal hatred (or minimal self-hatred/denial, since it’s a bad case of narcissism of small differences) isn't just annoying, and, in my opinion, not really thought out, but it’s absurd. The story of 'minimal' in the last 4 years have been nothing more than the building up and eventual destruction (once it became inconvenient) of a concept, and never about music. This review has been just a run-through this non or barely existent minimal/not minimal dichotomy, which when removed reveals, well, nothing. It’s just a pity, because I know you’re all much smarter than falling in this rather silly trap.
ReplyDeleteI've been around far longer then the minimal hype, when richie was bold and djs didnt need cool sunglasses like onur when mixing, apperantly the watergate has 1 helluva lightshow...
ReplyDeleteits funny to compary onur to villalobos (even funnier to see villalobos and bach in one sentence) but calling this average, unimaganitive, ubercool unreleased bad combo mash up anything then average is plain bad taste.
look around, open your ears and try to feel the groove without the ketamine, theres alot of seriously quality stuff goin on, onur has doner much better mixes and if he got seriously carried away, i have no clue what the watergate was thinkin when approving this sterile compilation...
i agree with eric that the tracks on this mix are so 'right now'. that being said, hearing the majority of these tracks outside the context of this mix strongly proves the point that the end product is totally whack. the mix works on a level of 'these tracks are all pretty good', but onur falls totally flat with the mixing.
ReplyDeletei think the argument being made in the original review is that it takes more than presets and 'hot tracks' to garner some respect. thats what keeps me reading mnml ssgs in the first place. the whole 'mnml' thing is played out for sure, but that doesnt mean you can just phone in a mix cd because of it.
and for those that think this mix is actually 'good', take a listen to cloutier's new podcast for ghostly. i promise it will change your mind about what actually constitutes a decent mix these days
this whole schminimalbacklash thing is like watching a slightly baffled puppy being kicked for minding its own business.
ReplyDeleteand for those that think this mix is actually 'good', take a listen to cloutier's new podcast for ghostly. i promise it will change your mind about what actually constitutes a decent mix these days"
ReplyDeletei know what consists of a decent mix. Cloutiers mix cant be put next to Onur's mix as a comparison as its two totally different styles of music!
What are you comparing Özer's mix with?
The only way to compare and be fair about it is to compare with another of his own or perhaps a Tolga Fidan set.
Onur's style is unique as is his music, to compare it next to this ghostly mix is like putting salt on your cereal it just wont work but more to the point it would taste terrible.
To be frank i think the reviewer had given it a bad review before it even went to paper.(or perhaps before even listening).....
The reviewer is entitled to his opinion. But he is wrong in my opinion... Onur is a superb producer (Kasmir is sublime) and i think this mix is a nice example of what Watergate is about. I read this review a couple of weeks ago but was quite surpised today to learn that it was written by one of the ssg peeps. To say that 'Özer certainly is no musical talent' just seems at odds with the fact that the people who write this blog tend to know what they're on about...btw anyone know if Onur is releasing a follow up LP any time soon?!
ReplyDeleteoh my god. there's so much weirdness going on here I can't even take it all I'll try to address a bit of it.
ReplyDeleteA. Ozer and Dinky are NOT big names. They're pretty big within the minimal scene (but not superstars), but outside of that scene, they're tiny. If mnmlssgs wanted to rip on people just cause they're big, Hawtin, Villalobos, and Luciano would be targets 1, 2, and 3. Richie is getting some because he's letting stuff go to his head.
B. Who gives a damn if someone is using "high end hardware" when the results all sound like one another. I'm not going to try to outwrite PC, cause he's got the description of the Ozer sound nailed.
C. Amusical is NOT atonal. If I may be permitted to put my spin on the review, Ozer sees music as something other than an art form. It's like a hobby, or a profession, or something. Basically, he's good at operating the tools and generally understands how to make a song "successful," but he's not expressing anything; you get the feeling that it doesn't mean anything to him.
D. The Turkish/mnml fusion thing strikes me as being a tiny bit schtick. Not really something he's serious about exploring, just a way for people to say "oh, he's special...he has Turkish elements in his music."
E. I didn't realize that Turkey and Australia were competing in a famous dj and producer-off at the moment. Is it really a competition?
F. re: minimal backlash. Yeah, it's called electronic music - things go in phases, and they usually get old when they stop moving forward. Ozer's newest stuff sounds about the same as his output from early 2006. That's boring.
i always wish i could find out how much the people reviewing/commenting/criticising producers actually know about their methods, or their attitudes.
ReplyDeletehow much of this is conjecture, how much is actually based on experience?
- 'he is a complete geek when it comes to studio, very clever person'
- 'Ozer sees music as something other than an art form. It's like a hobby, or a profession, or something. Basically, he's good at operating the tools and generally understands how to make a song "successful," but he's not expressing anything; you get the feeling that it doesn't mean anything to him'
- 'The Turkish/mnml fusion thing strikes me as being a tiny bit schtick. Not really something he's serious about exploring, just a way for people to say "oh, he's special...he has Turkish elements in his music."'
do any of you people actually know him or what his attitude is? i'd like to know.
i think the review comes off as a bit of a slating, really, with some half-assed caveats to try and excuse the bile ('oh some people probably like it...but they're on drugs and don't know any better like i do). could there be a kind of anti-boosterism, where people feel the need to slag off a DJ's music and (wtf) hair just so they get attention? i'm not really sure it's necessary.
it says above here:
say something constructive, bitte. or if you're gonna take a swipe, at least sharpen your nails.
if you wanted to show your frustration, why did you sharpen them and then take petty catswipes rather than actually digging in?
Hey guys,
ReplyDeleteA number of things here are striking:
1) the vehemence and aggressivity of Greg and Tina's reaction. By your logic, not only MUST we praise Ozur, but we must live in Berlin and know him and his production methods in order to do so. The message: if you know 'the truth', boost away! Everyone else? They're just ignorant, and should shut up.
I think the weird incipient nationalism behind the last comment is best passed over in silence.
2) It's amazing how carelessly people read my review. I expressed three sentiments, basically
a) I'm PERSONALLY suspicious of Ozur as a 'talent' (but you'll notice that I declare my bias and emphasise this is MY problem with Ozur)
b) the mix is very contemporary and emblematic of a certain place/moment in time... (and c'mon, would nightclubs even exist without the possibility of sex, drawn out into the AM with the addition of amphetamines?)
c) for what its worth, the mix captures that moment well, and is decent, despite having one or two dull moments
Yeah? All clear? Just to recap, that is what I said, not this mong, paranoid, distorted projection of your insecurities and pre-judgements about it.
The other thing is that there's this weird incredulity/credulity thing going on, as well as defensive antagonism.
On the one hand, a reviewer would have to study for years in order to appreciate 'the real Ozur', and when they did, they would only come to one legitimate conclusion, to wit: that he's a genius of the order of Villalobos, Eno, or Bach. (!?)
On the other, Greg and Tina think it's fine to skim a review (read the first few sentences), then launch into an invective which attacks not only the reviewer, but also Australia, Australians, the blogosphere, and 'music criticism these days'. Gosh.
You are effectively arguing for a world in which ALL critique is rendered as personal hatred, descried, minimised, and rejected. You profess a love of Ozur, but this is really just a mask for you hatred of an opinion that differs from yours. Why don't you guys have room in your minds for another opinion – why? Why can't somebody think otherwise?
Another recap: I don't like Ozur's productions; I didn't mind this mix.
I'm okay, you're okay. Okay?
surely it's exactly the response you expected?
ReplyDeletewhat is the point of talking about music (or anything for that matter) if the only thing we are allowed to do is agree/praise/boost?
ReplyDeletemost of the reactions here reflect two really negative dominant tendencies:
(1) a refusal to actually take the time to read properly what has been written. as a result, any nuance or qualifications from the argument get completely lost, which leads to (2) anything that is not overly positive, or shock, questioning or negative is hating, vindictive and most likely a reflection of our jealousy.
the purpose of this blog has always been - and will continue to be - support the best, call the bad, question and discuss the rest.
@ Joe: far be it from me to induce a self-fulfilling prophecy... but yes, you're right.
ReplyDeleteThere was a comment in a previous post that appeared to express a lot of this... and it's a criticism which comes across almost like a threat. It was:
"You do better when you write about good new techno."
Then there are the direct threats:
"Take a plane to europe and smell the expresso (sic) kids or your blog will be going down sooner than later.
(as an aside, what's interesting about this is that the coffee sucks in Berlin)
you really make yourself look like complete idiots lately."
What next, horse's heads in the bed ;) ?
It's disappointing, but it just makes me want to continue. As Chris said, praise the good, yes, but also call the bad... AND the ambivalent. This was an ambivalent review, that's what's so striking.
AND discuss the rest.
And assert, openly that is
a) just my opinion
b) but it is my opinion
and I assert the right to express my opinion as nothing more than that. I authorise myself.
I want to have a free-flowing debate, and I don't think that precludes antagonism. I don't want to shut that down, and that's why we still have the comments section open. But some people really drive a hard bargain...
"...Greg and Tina think it's fine to skim a review (read the first few sentences), then launch into an invective which attacks not only the reviewer, but also Australia, Australians, the blogosphere, and 'music criticism these days'. Gosh."
ReplyDelete...in response to your review in which you attack not only the music you're reviewing, but also the whole output of the artist, the artist himself, his looks, his "haircut", and 'minimal these days'. Gosh. :-/
If I may put in my two cents-- I think that neither that overzealous review nor the embarrassingly sophomoric debate that followed are worthy of this blog.
ReplyDelete@ Malcolm: thank you for your metacomment. We now know what you think of the debate.
ReplyDelete@ Gwenan: I declared MY doubt about Ozur, laying my bias bare. Should I keep it to myself, or just pretend I don't have one? Or is the only legitimate bias toward an artist a positive one? Should people who don't like a recording 'pass it on' to someone who does? And what is the cumulative effect if this happens?
@ for feek's sake, please read what I said:
"The zeitgeist may have already passed minimal by, and Özer certainly is no musical talent, but nonetheless, this mix exemplifies a style, a club, and a moment in time. And that has some value."
I doubt Ozur's talent as a producer, this is clear. I don't like his records, for the most part.
But this is a mix, mostly made up of other people's music... there are some good tracks on it, and it's tightly mixed. I think this mix is an accurate snapshot of a moment in time, but no more than that. In a year, it will be forgotten. In ten years, it might be dredged up and listened to as evidence of 'Watergate 2008'. Maybe. I personally doubt it. But perhaps Greg and Tina are right, and in 200 years our progeny will be listening to 'Watergate 01' along with Bach.
NB I said that the zeitgeist had passed minimal (as expressed on this release by): this is not an attack on 'minimal' tout court. Anybody who reads this blog and follows what we're listening to will know that there's plenty of enthusiasm for things that go boom/klick in the night.
But but but:
why is a criticism construed as an attack?
Personally, I've been listening to this mix since June and I think it's a real grower. Didn't really give a fuck about it at first, but over time I found myself putting it on more and more. I think it suits a particular mood very well, and has a nice lean shape to it. As for Onur himself, I was never a huge fan of Kasmir, but he kicked ass at Mutek and released a really solid untitled single recently. Not sure how his hair and sunglasses factor into this.
ReplyDelete"I declared MY doubt about Ozur, laying my bias bare. Should I keep it to myself, or just pretend I don't have one? Or is the only legitimate bias toward an artist a positive one?"
ReplyDeletenonono of course not! but surely you can see that you've been antagonistic by levelling your opening criticisms at *the man himself* and his wholesale worth as a musician, rather than the music you're reviewing? couldn't your expression of your bias have been a little more measured (or even just a bit less rude?!)
once people start getting defensive, interesting free-flowing debate inevitably goes out of the window, and that really is a shame, especially in a music scene that's generally characterised by collaboration and sharing of new discoveries.
we're all reading your blog, we're all interested in what you think is good and what not worth bothering with...
... but, just because a puppy's bad, doesn't mean it needs a kicking... :P
BTW my fellow puppyfooters, I think Milt's comment is really the most interesting thing said so far:
ReplyDelete"Each term being nothing more than an empty-signifier to provide structure, so when one is exhausted, another one that means even less is again haphazardly applied to whatever music is out there. This minimal hatred (or minimal self-hatred/denial, since it’s a bad case of narcissism of small differences) isn't just annoying, and, in my opinion, not really thought out, but it’s absurd. The story of 'minimal' in the last 4 years have been nothing more than the building up and eventual destruction (once it became inconvenient) of a concept, and never about music. This review has been just a run-through this non or barely existent minimal/not minimal dichotomy, which when removed reveals, well, nothing. It’s just a pity, because I know you’re all much smarter than falling in this rather silly trap."
House constantly avows itself. The records say, 'This is HOUSE music!'
and even
'HOUSE! HOUSE! HOUSE! HOUSE!
all the time.
...but such a thing is non-existent in minimal. It constantly disavows itself.
If you say you're minimal, you're not minimal.
It's like cool: if you say you're cool, you're not.
But WTF is minimal?! Maybe Milt's right, it's just an empty signifier from which to disavow/repudiate some 'thing' that we don't like or are not... in order to be cool....
& NB, this has percolated right through, so that, in a recent interview I did with mainstream dance artist who's doing a horrible mash/crossover of indie/electro-house/prog-minimal, he said:
"My music is not minimal. I mean, I don’t have anything against minimal personally, but I tend to get bored pretty quickly. Minimal doesn’t hold my attention… more often than not, the minimal that I hear bores me. I like to keep things moving around, energetic, changing progressions every sixteen bars or so, not sitting on the one groove for four minutes."
Two years ago, DJ T said to me:
"Minimal should have never become an expression of a style. It should be a prefix, but it’s not a good term to describe a style, it’s total bullshit. But it’s used as a style - it’s there now and you can’t stop it.
It’s really funny how this ‘strange message’ of minimal is arriving all over the world."
But then he said:
"Villalobos - I really appreciate what he’s doing as a DJ, and since one and a half years he’s stopped playing this minimal stuff and he’s once again into house music and tribal, percussive house and techno music."
Then Magda, as you might remember in her RA interview said,
"Well, I have a problem with the word minimal because I think it's really misused nowadays. It's gotten slowly out of control. When I think of minimal, it's not what we play, you know?"
joe:
ReplyDelete"Amusical is NOT atonal. If I may be permitted to put my spin on the review, Ozer sees music as something other than an art form. It's like a hobby, or a profession, or something. Basically, he's good at operating the tools and generally understands how to make a song "successful," but he's not expressing anything; you get the feeling that it doesn't mean anything to him."
- Never said amusical means atonal , what we tried to say is that the reviewer is confusing the ability of Onur to recognize pitches (that is calling him Amusical) to the style he uses on purpose in his melodies and chords (that is a tonal)
WE KNOW THE GUY and you are SO extremely wrong to judge him like this....
-He does try to express music as an art form and its not a hobby for him(his making a living out of this and a very good one , who would call that a hobby! ) ,
Music its his career as an artist and music means a lot for him.
" Ozer and Dinky are NOT big names. They're pretty big within the minimal scene (but not superstars), but outside of that scene, they're tiny. If mnmlssgs wanted to rip on people just cause they're big, Hawtin, Villalobos, and Luciano would be targets 1, 2, and 3. Richie is getting some because he's letting stuff go to his head"
-We where talking in the content of this form of dance scene (Isnt this blog suppose to cover that scene anyway why would we mean somewhere else)
-we never said Onur or Dinky where "super stars" you said it...,and yes they are BIG names in this scene , like it or not.
Luciano , Ricardo and Rich are not superstars (Britney is )and had been well destroyed in other forums already doing it here would be even more stupid so why not rip on fresh (still BIG ) names to gain attention.
Sorry but This is just a cheap way for mnmlssgs to gain the attention they would never get otherwise, more posts coming , more people reading their shitty bitter speculations, more haters , more jealousy, more hate , more hate and more hate and more WAR!
as if we needed more of it..
we are out of here , for good.
tchuz
Lads, they're spot on there.
ReplyDeleteEveryone knows that Russia invaded Georgia is because they were sick of the constant slew of flatpack minimal from the Caucuses.
They were warned, it's Chicago or nothing for Putin these days.
greg and tina (if you're still there) that wasn't me saying that, it was me quoting someone else. I just wanted to know if you are actually acquainted with him. If you are then fine.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if PC is (I suspect not?) in which case I think it is a bit rich to basically say his music is as calculated as the review suggests. If I was a producer I'd take that extremely badly, so I'm not surprised it's caused such a reaction.
chris said:
"most of the reactions here reflect two really negative dominant tendencies:
(1) a refusal to actually take the time to read properly what has been written. as a result, any nuance or qualifications from the argument get completely lost, which leads to (2) anything that is not overly positive, or shock, questioning or negative is hating, vindictive and most likely a reflection of our jealousy.
the purpose of this blog has always been - and will continue to be - support the best, call the bad, question and discuss the rest"
i agree with you a lot, but I think trying to provoke this kind of debate using that review was completely antagonistic - almost as calculating as ozer's production process eh?
If you take potshots at a producer's hair (even in jest, mind), speculate on his emotional investment in his music and then say that anyone who really does like the mix is probably just 'mashed', you can expect nothing less than a reactionary reponse.
I think you had the same problem with the stinky/Dinky title. If you want to provoke a debate about something you're critical of then I'm sure most people are absolutely fine with that, but I reckon you just have to be extra careful (or at least not careless) if you want a reasonable response.
@ Don and Sherry: War?! WTF? Are you guys struggling through a terrible Tuesday or what? I just don't know what to say... The only thing I can get from this is if I read your most recent comment in a 'Leave Britney alone' voice. Then it makes me snicker. Maybe we should to a 'Leave Ozur alone' post on youtube?
ReplyDelete@ Joe, & about the haircut and stinky dinky thing: well, far be it from people to take things with a wink.
All Chris did with the Dinky post was express ambivalence as a DJ. The essence of his post was: 'Dinky is a great DJ. I'm not sure about her DJing. I wonder why she puts herself forward as a DJ, instead of as a producer.'
But because the first commenter was a knob-end, everybody assumed that Chris (?!) and therefore SSGS were hating on Dinky, and that's the way the post is remembered.
This post isn't just a cheap shot to stir up a viper's nest (although we've learned that's NOT hard to do), but rather a way of taking a review and trying to draw it into a broader debate, basically: is this review emblematic or exemplary of anything?
I stand by what I said about the mix, and about Ozur. Please feel free to disagree, buy his spooky-sounding records, go to his gigs, pat him on the back, give him a line (and a tissue if he's crying 'cos someone was mean to him) and tell him how much he means to you. I won't hold it against you.
NB, silent SSG Dave is a big Ozur fan, BTW. And we don't hate him or think less of him... amazing, really.
"This is just a cheap way for mnmlssgs to gain the attention"
ReplyDeleteI have to agree.
This post and the Dinky post were posted to get a reaction.simple as. mnml ssgs aren't stupid they know if they post some controversial piece its going to get a lot of feedback and as they say any publicity is good publicity.
as for the purpose of the post being to generate publicity/readership, well you can think that if you want, but really it is closer to the opposite. generally anytime we posted something that is more critical, we get hammered for it and based on some comments, most likely *lose* readers, rather than gain them. this is what we thought would be a more probable outcome. if there is a difference, it is that now we have built a readership, we've perhaps been more willing to post more critical/stronger worded pieces than we perhaps did earlier on.
ReplyDeletethe other joe is much closer to the truth in seeing this as an attempt to provoke (debate).
@PC -- don & sherry?! brilliant
ReplyDeletei am glad to see this 'debate' come back around. especially enjoyed the use of magdas comment --
"Well, I have a problem with the word minimal because I think it's really misused nowadays. It's gotten slowly out of control. When I think of minimal, it's not what we play, you know?"
how can you not take that comment, from the queen bee of haircut techno no less, seriously?! it hits the nail on the head. i agree that the zeitgeist of minimal has surely passed it by. look how djs like magda & cloutier, frankly at opposite ends of the 'mnml spectrum', are turning back to their roots. turning back to mnmls roots.
if i may read into the subtext of the original review for a moment -- haircut techno is dead. long live haircut techno!
for outside observers, such as the ssgs & myself (again to compare opposite ends of the spectrum), its hard to miss the fact that house music has stood its ground while mnml burnt itself out. or at least singed all the hair from its body. while realizing all the while that mnml has yet to find a comfortable place within 'modern techno'. it has struggled with its own identity when thrust to the forefront, and has been criticized ruthlessly by lovers and haters both former and current.
here we stand, lovers and haters trying to find a common ground. maybe the point has been lost on don & sherry, along with all of the fallen mnml hipsters, but house music. . .all night long!
PC said:
ReplyDelete"well, far be it from people to take things with a wink."
i guess you've already established the relative lack of humour in the techno microcosm (mnmlcosm?) so...
it's this type of thing I think isn't working for you:
"I stand by what I said about the mix, and about Ozur. Please feel free to disagree, buy his spooky-sounding records, go to his gigs, pat him on the back, give him a line (and a tissue if he's crying 'cos someone was mean to him) and tell him how much he means to you. I won't hold it against you."
It's a fine point, and it equates to "i'm ok, you're ok, ok" - but when you've repeatedly established that your readership is touchy about criticism, maybe phrasing it like this isn't the best way of going about stopping greg and tina starting a ssgs vs the world (or at least vs turkey).
as for the actual subject of this post...I like the Watergate mix a lot and I like Ozer's productions. I like the clanginess, the mood, the serpentine way some of the tracks move. And I like his tracks in mixes - I think they always lend a bit of (and there's no other way of putting this) the exotic to things. that's my take.
I dont think this was ever put up to provoke a "debate".
ReplyDeleteIt was put up because you guys(or at least the poster) knew it was going to go like this(after the dinky post).Readers coming back at you with all guns blazing.
Hahaha. Really?? Have all of you really wasted all this time typing this many useless comments about an Onur Ozur mix cd?? Oh my. And please don't compare Villalobos to Satie, Bach or Eno....Because that's just as insane. I'm sure the mix cd is fine. If you like - great. If you dont like it - listen to something else. Fact is this Onur guy seems to be making music and doing well, which from what I can gather is a lot more admirable than most of what I see in these posts.
ReplyDeletei'm kinda shocked no one has made an "opinions are like assholes" remark yet.
ReplyDeleteare people actually buying mix cds?
ReplyDeletethese days with the abundance of recorded live sets and podcasts and what have you.
i have not felt the need to buy a mix cd in many years.unless there was an "unixed" disc that accompanied it.
cheers to the reviewer for actually stating his opinion, something that is lacking in 99% of the music reviews these days.
greg and tina if you are not onur ozers mom or dad you need to fall back and jump off dudes ballsack.
ReplyDeleteits just a scathing review hardly the first in his career i would assume.
Heh, very controversial... I was absolutely owned by Kasmir and I love Onur Ozer but I do agree that this mix CD wasn't particularly impressive (yes I'm being polite there). I don't think I'd call him amusical though. I'd be interested to hear some more about you think that, one day some time.
ReplyDeleteOn a separate note, thank you for the honest review. I hope you guys continue to post reviews that are actually interesting and make you think. It is *so* much more worthwhile than reading reviews like the ones on R... I mean, nevermind.
Speaking of mix CDs that are worthwhile... I've listened to these both a million times and I'm sure most of you have too--
ReplyDeleteBut I could NEVER give enough praise to Cassy's Panoramabar and The Button Down Mind of Daniel Bell. Now THOSE are what you call fucking good mix CDs.
Ever since I was introduced to these mix CDs, I sort of stopped buying mix CDs. Because I know that very, very few will even compare to these two masterpieces.
@ Yurinator:
ReplyDeleteYeah, they're both amazing mixes that still sound just as good as when they were released.
Same goes for Michael Mayer's Immer and Fabric 13. And Triple R's Friends mix.
And if you wanna go back even further, Richie Hawtin's Plastikman mix for Mixmag from 1995. I won't bore you with the standard 'What happened to Richie' rant, but far out, listen to that mix if you get a chance. Interestingly it's not miles away from the current (and currently very interesting) deep, headfuck techno a la Mike Parker, D Dozzy and Cio D'Or.
As for this year: well, there's so many amazing mixes going around on the net. They're free, they're legit, and they're amazing. I will say I think SSGs have had more than a fair share of those.
What is the relevance of the CD mix these days? I wrote about this here:
http://www.residentadvisor.net/review-view.aspx?id=4766
As far as mnml goes though, I really dig Magda's 'She's a Dancing Machine'. It translates the incessance of mnml (a la broadcasts from Bar 25 etc) into an invitation to a theoretically never ending mix that never peaks, never dissipates, but is always plateauing, relaxing, plateauing. I reference Deleuze and Guattari here. People who've read a Thousand Plateaus might remember they intended the book be read from any page, in any direction.... 'Dancing Machine' is so like that, in a way. Start from any track and just wiggle on in.
I remember reading that review, I think. I couldn't agree more.
ReplyDeleteAnd couldn't agree more that all the mix CDs you listed are excellent. I have not listened to the Plastikman Mixmag thing though--I'm gonna try to find a copy and check it out. I *love* old Plastikman!!!!!!
on mix cds, there haven't been many this year that have really grabbed me (besides berghain 2, of course), but one i've been listening to quite a bit lately is sossa's contribution to the circo loco celebrations:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.discogs.com/release/1408154
i had never heard of sossa before, but i think this is perhaps the best mix out of the bunch (saying that, i haven't listened to all of them that closely). it has an 'ibiza feel' in a good way, if that makes any sense.
both daniel bell mix cd's are absolutely stellar. while the button down mind is more of a deep, heady chugger, the button down mind strikes back is a total groover, jumping through styles seamlessly and beautifully.
ReplyDeleteof equal notoriety is the overlooked berghain 01, mixed by andre galluzzi, both discs of the arpiar mixed circoloco 10yr anniversary (the disc done by sossa is equally brilliant), and most of steve bug's early mix cds, most notably da minimal funk volumes 1, 2, and 3, as well as the flow.
ok, no more html for today.
arpiar's first circoloco cd is a winner for me, and i've been enjoying the button down mind a hell of a lot.
ReplyDeletethanks for all the recommendations - i'll definitely check out the steve bug ones, i loved his style at secretsundaze a couple of weeks back. very classy.
(some good did come of all these comments...)
cloutier - cheers on the ghostly podcast, one of the best things i have heard all year.
ReplyDeletebeen a fan of a few of your older mixes, but this one is particularly brilliant.
I'm gonna check out this mix. It's got 45 comments attached to the blog entry... is it free?
ReplyDeletetheUbiq
i didnt read everything here. but i just need to say. i think this is a really boring and totally overrated mix cd...
ReplyDeleteThere are way more better mixes out there and saying about this mix "it's the best mix ever" or similiar things is just stupid. maybe it is the best mix ever, but only if you havent heard any else...
"onur has doner much better mixes and if he got seriously carried away, i have no clue what the watergate was thinkin when approving this sterile compilation..." as inquisitor said here hits it quite good.
i also had the same thoughts as eric here ("the first five tracks seem like "oh, my buddy gave me their new cut and i need to put it out first," ).
watch out for better mixes out there... the "trademark" watergate doesn't make it better...
(fucking tourist club)
First of all
ReplyDelete@ "the first five tracks seem like "oh, my buddy gave me their new cut and i need to put it out first"
Sorry to say but this is one of the stupid review i've ever heard .
What does really that mean , or why dont u put a review for the rest of the tracks than . ?
There are no certain rules to create a mix cd . or when u do according to a certain things , it cannot put a difference . for me , that makes this mix very interesting .
Loving or hating , it is a relative thing,and anyone would respect the reviewer.
But this kind of reviews are a bit bitter and non-sense .
When i read that kind of critics, also such as an artist appear , i feel that this is not a serious music-discussion environment .
I really like his hair!
ReplyDeleteto marc...
ReplyDeletehate what you want about my comment about the first five tracks, but there's absolutely no flow, programming, or, shit, even mixing between them. its just tracks, played almost in entirety, and sloppily thrown together in the mix.
as for the rest of the mix, its programmed better, and some of the transitions are so seamless i didn't even know what cut i was on anymore...but that didn't engage me nearly enough to give this album a stellar review.
i stand by my original stance. take it or leave it...but to each their own.
i listened this mix for the first time , and somehow i wanted to listen 2nd time , and now i want to listen for the 3rd time .
ReplyDeleteIt means , it is a very interesting mix , and keeps me listen again .
Especially the end of the mix super subtle and mysterious .
@ ben
ReplyDelete""Ozer sees music as something other than an art form. It's like a hobby, or a profession, or something. Basically, he's good at operating the tools and generally understands how to make a song "successful," but he's not expressing anything; you get the feeling that it doesn't mean anything to him. """
It seems that you are his high school body , or you are a medium or fortune teller .
What a stupid feedback , it just shows your personal ego or negative feelings more than a feedback made for an artists work .
i ve listened him in Athens and hated his set, boring, "drained minimal" i also wrote a huge article about talented or not djs producers etc, guys who exchange their temporare fame with money playing here and their with no deep skills, or conciousness, anyway the article is in greek (unfortunately) and is here http://wonderli.lamogia.gr/blog/?p=78
ReplyDeleteanywayevery genre or subgenre of music is boring if there are no balls innit, no soul, no smartness*
Cheerz*
and sth else to express once more?
ReplyDeleteis he not bored of being told that its totally aimless, with no meaning trying to be someone else?
in his case trying to be Ricardo Villalobos...?
mercy us*
;-)
I listened him last sunday at berlin , was a bar 25 closing party .
ReplyDeleteHe is totally a fascinating dj with a great musical wisdom . On top great and down to earth person .
Well, comparing one to another is very popular .
And people loves to compare new and talented people with Villalobos or etc.
If you wanna see Villalobos or Hawtin wannabe's , take a look around , you might see a lot .
Sorry this idea of thinking goes nowhere .
Someone has to explain me this word ; " drained "
ReplyDeleteOne is saying one word , and the rest is following without examining it .
What is drained music ? What is the point out of it ?
There is good music or there is bad music . Even the bad ones can be good for some ears or vice versa .
For example if we are talking about drained music , than we have to talk about whole Minus crew rather than Onur Özer.
If you go minus parties , it is so rare that you would hear a house tune . But, many people loves it , so respect .
Now house music a bit more trendy, so we start to talk negative about previous style .
Even the ones who wrote about their complains about "drained" techno music here, i am sure as my name, they were listening this "drained called" music 2 years ago like mad .
But now house is more trendy, so they have to follow hm ? Maybe Dub music will take the lead in 3 years, and after 3 years these people will call house music as pussy music than ?
Come on .
I have listened Onur Özer 3 times this summer, and every time i heard different sets . One was technoish , and the other one was more abstract and the other one was super housey with lots of old gems and classics .
This shows me how big an artist has wisdom about music , and play to the mood of people!
This guy has a strong name in this scene not since 3 months like a newbie, but since maybe 4-5 years now . Not only with his djing but with his output as well such as very strong eps and a great album . An album which was maybe one of the start points of todays middle eastern-instrumental minimal music which became so popular
@ wonderli
how can you decide by yourself that he is totally aimless ? Or how can you decide that he is trying to be someone like Villalobos ? As he has black hair or maybe looking physically like someone which is totally the nature of human being ?
Weren't you told that you are looking like someone in your life ? And if yes , do you think that you are really trying to be like the one which people told you ?
Villalobos is different league , Onur is different league , Napoleon is different league and you are also in some kind of different league i think .
And as the way you say , if he is aimless , and if he has almost no musical mind , how can someone be loved by many music lovers, promoters, clubs since "years" ?
Also are you really traveling and going every club he plays ? How many times you listen him to decide that he is aimless ?
Here, imo, the subject and the discussion is not Onur . Also here , i am not trying to behind someone else as well .
But there is one thing i can decide very easy ; What is black and what is white . What is sense and what is nonsense .
cheers
A